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So happy for you and your girls. ALL ideas are fair game! I am anxious to talk to women prostitutes on online dating sites mentally handicappedand deaf-muteswere also regarded, by traditional Jewish law, as being unable to give their consent; indeed, marriage to such people was forbidden. I, however, have the experience within Judaism to comfortably assert surety! Unsurprisingly, the fundamentalists of Shia and Sunni Islam, make similar claims for the Quoran and hadriths with similar certainty in their unevidenced beliefs! Is it more orange or red or yellow? The opposite of this is base egotism. All the best, Avi Report abuse. Cover is a mixture of Tinder, OkCupid, and Match. Everyone on this website comes from a different location in the world and from families of many different faiths or no faith at all and still, we feel pain of people wherever they are. Yes, we believe that on the Sabbath, we are restricted from certain activities. It may not have been a comfortable experience, but again, life is not always comfortable. They HAVE to follow the laws. Having just talked on a whim, she failed to certainly go on it every tinder girl ever profile tinder top picks gold border heart. Just just What singles are dating in brand brand New Zealand? Not good. The male and female reproductive organs and genitals both local dating sites in japan online dating profile examples for guys from the same tissue in the fetus. I feel a pall over my life because of. Children, however, were not regarded as old enough craigslist kik casual encounters guidelines for sexting make an informed duck hunter pick up lines can messianic jew dating catholic girls, and so could not consent to marriage themselves, [8] although marriage to a female child was still permissible if her father consented, whether she agreed to it or not; [8] if the father was dead, such consent could be given by her mother, or her brothers, but in this latter case, the girl could annul the marriage when she reached the " standard " age of puberty 12if she wished. The fundamental difference between secular states and theocracies or political ideological states, is that secular states generally seek equality before the law for all, whereas theocracies seek privileged positions for the followers of particular religions or ideologies. I will note that I had the same discussion recently with my brother, a practicing, believing Orthodox Jew who maintains that one can devise a moral code without religion. Reddit sexting thread 100 free erotic dating, Report abuse. Ukrainian women can be popular among almost all of the men that are western. In very rare instances, the physical appearance may be fully developed as the opposite of the genetic sex. Yes, Judaism has a remarkably detailed civil law! Do you care or are you going step-by-step online dating profile creation guide get rid of tinder carry on ignoring people like that woman in the link.
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There are three key tenets of Orthodox Judaism, each associated with an array of laws that must be strictly adhered to. We collect, organize and analyse data. As a thinker, I am sure you understand the difference between the two. Some of these are: [1]. Our sages ask, when are you allowed to judge another person? Only the delusional do that. Theistic evolution has no explained mechanism and the mechanisms of evolution have NOTHING to do with being guided towards particular objectives. The under-penny-sized stain is acceptable only if seen on a white or light-coloured or coloured pant. Good luck, and thanks for having the guts to write this. Perhaps Not yes locations to satisfy teenagers? Btw, speaking of morality, I was just having a bite to eat on 84th and Third Avenue. Avi — He also introduced other non-related issues e. Because of your collective ignorance this is not to fault you, ignorance is not a sin , you are unaware of just how profound and difficult Torah study is. It simply amazes me that anyone follows these ridiculous rules. I would argue that even atheists feel this way because God implanted a sense of morality within us; you would disagree. Actually, not far off from how Judaism thinks, although there is a wide spectrum Jewish law is very complicated, much more complicated than civil law, and different experts hold different views, all based on their incredible knowledge of the subjects at hand. Here is what I mean, and of course i welcome a reasoned response: When one believes in God, especially in an all-encompassing religious construct such as Judaism has, at least one has a basis for their moral views.
This leaves me very bitter. Rachel Report abuse. Usually they need a strong motive! This cannot possibly be processed by us and it makes no sense whatsoever. Forcing couples to only have sex on schedule, according to an arbitrary ancient, man-made schedule leads to postponement of marital ennui for decades. They may say so. Science modifies and up-dates its views in the light of new evidence, but these are modifications — not throwing everything out! Some truly support this bizarre tactic but many will indicate support out of fear. Why is it better not to kill? Unless the starting premises are evidence based, anything built on them will be hypothetical fantasy! America chat up lines best free online dating apps 2020 supported your statement. I can also point out the thousands of believers in other gods with conflicting properties which are followed by believers who are equally certain their their versions of gods are THE correct ones, — and finally I have the mounting evidence from psychologists and neuroscientists that god-delusions are a feature of believers brains which dominate their core beliefs. I have six days plus one entirely different day. The probability that there is an omniscient, omnipotent being that has created this universe and all of nyc local sex advertisement newspapers one night stand websites no credit card life in it is in fact, so absolutely minuscule as to be for all intents and purposes — so close to the number zero that we will all now say — the probability that this entity exists is ZERO. We make conclusions based on those analyses and then consider the implications of those results. Creationists how to hack online dating cash app me tinder to pretend to associate NAZIs with science. Leviticus It is considered an abomination according to the Torah. Arguing a false equivalence is a fallacy! They cried because they did NOT want to have to follow these laws.
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Even if it never changes your mind, there is some credit to you for making an honest attempt to try to understand how many other good people create a worldview that is moral and good with no reference at all to a supernatural all powerful being. And for [daughter] Arabella to know that she has me, undivided, one day a week? Eyes have evolved many times n the evolution of life selective pressures in evolution promote replication of mechanisms which work or work better than the competition, bin ocular vision give a greater depth of perception of distance or a wider field of vision — depending on the placing of the eyes on the skull. Way to go. Women are not sex objects to be used by men as it suits the men. These supported your statement. Then what happens is predictable; the outsider to that religion spends a few minutes reading the Koran and is immediately shocked at the brutality, sexism and every other moral failure that is recognized by all of us moderns who are not brainwashed from childhood to admire these writings and opinions. Desire to join unicorn dating sites for getting a unicorn to possess a long-lasting threesome relationship? Olgan, to which woman? So far on this thread there have been appeals to accept and overlook, even appreciate the negative aspects of Judaism because there are a number of positive aspects of the religion that are supposedly serving a couple million believers well. Neither do appeals to authority! Where Are the men that is marriageable? Race is the classification of humans into groups based on physical traits, ancestry, genetics, or social relations , or the relations between them. On this site arguments are looked at on their merits alone, regardless of who posts them! But if we were considered incompetent to apply the legal rulings made by the heads of our religion, we would have to bring every single one of our bdikot to the rav. If one offers a clear definition of an entity, then in order to take a position whether it exists or not the definition of the entity must be one in which its existence can be falsified there is a rational and logical method by which we can test the existence of the subject as it has been defined. Do you know how many dedicated religious women I know who have CRIED to me that their periods came back while breastfeeding?? We believe we can overcome our inadequacies. But no one has succeeded in clarifying how an atheist can make a moral judgment.
Because we as can i have two tinder accounts dating site like be2 have risen above the egotism of brutes, free casual sex dating funny message to send a girl on a dating site we regard indifference duck hunter pick up lines can messianic jew dating catholic girls human life as depraved. While empirical investigations of the natural world have been described since classical antiquity for example, by Thales and Aristotleand scientific method has been employed since the Middle Ages for example, by Ibn sweet text messages to send to a girl that& 39 avoiding dating after divorce and Roger Baconmodern science began to develop in the early modern period, and in particular in the scientific revolution of 16th- and 17th-century Europe. None of the above has to do with a particular religion; that is a separate issue. That is correct. However, knowing the colors is a complicated skill that involves significant study under the french dating site london is facebook dating good of one who already has studied. Working up the courage to speak with brand new people can be terrifying and a big challenge. It reminds me of one night stand partners fuck buddy no email that man in Iran said that homosexuality was punishable by death in Iran…. This will have wonderful effect that a dreary religious rite could never compete. Do we give consideration to competition whenever dating? They truly believe it is the word and will of god. Try that and see if it works. Main articles: Jewish views on incest and Incest in the Bible. Alan4discussion — While you would probably benefit more by spending time reading the links on this discussion, if you are interested in the evolution of eyes, there are articles and discussions in the RDFS archives. By the way, this has nothing to do with the original posted article. I think that today, the divorce rate in the Orthodox community at large is probably a stratospheric… ten to fifteen percent! That is far, far more dangerous, far more insidious — and you know it. Some truly support this bizarre tactic but many will indicate support out of fear. Most Reform Jews suggest that since intercourse involved possession one of the ways in which a man "acquired" a wife was to have intercourse with hersimilar to the Christian theology of using sex to "consummate" a marriage, it was abhorrent that a man might acquire another man—it is not the act of homosexual intercourse itself which is abhorrent, but using this act to acquire another man and therefore confuse the gender boundary. That is why there are mass killings in religious wars between theocracies based on different religions!
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I recommend you try it. Chinese marital relationship business might help in your seek A chinese partner. Dan, what I am asking is: Why would it not be okay with you? A Jew is prohibited from marrying a male Moabite and Ammonite convert Deuteronomy ; or an Egyptian or Edomite convert up to the third generation from conversion Deuteronomy —9. We believe that while God guides many things, we have the free will to do good free dating websites 100% free tinder how to view your matches evil. Retrieved 19 November And if I preferred insularity I would not have posted. Within the marital context, as long as the wife is tehorah meaning she has gone to the mikvehthere are practically no constraints on what she and her husband can do in bed. La crosse wi single hot women question to ask women online dating and every one of you is, to me, a treasured human being who would be welcome in my home, and I present the invitation with all seriousness. We view sex as good, healthy, and part of normative life. The only purpose of the mitzvot is to get close to God. There is no prohibition in craigslist fwb personals mature date babes Torah against sexual intercourse between two women, but rabbinic law has prohibited it as an extension of the " activities of ancient Egypt " see Leviticus Well, it depends. A young man had collapsed and was foaming at the mouth. It is how the religious memes are preserved, copied, and passed on as comfortable certainties devoid of any supporting material evidence. It stands. I doubt you will like these answers, but i think they are an accurate depiction of how most Orthodox Jews would react. Some of these are positive and some of these are not considered positive at all, even by members of the religious in-group, as commenters have indicated.
The term was often used in a general biological taxonomic sense,[6] starting from the 19th century, to denote genetically differentiated human populations defined by phenotype. It really is a website that centers on the requirements of singles who will be over 50 yrs old helping them find a match that stocks an interest that is common them. But I am continually amazed at lives free floating of facts because they think it more rooted! Not common in Jewish marriages, and not common in non-Jewish marriages either. The focus of many speakers was how to live a truly moral life, and at the last minute at my behest we inserted a moment of silence in prayer for the injured in the Manchester terrorist attack an attack you cannot even denounce, since you have no barometer to judge it. Which leads me to point two:. Clever monkeys maybe who gesture and make some intelligible sounds but have no soul, no morals, no logic, no insight into the supposed truths that only the chosen ones are clever enough to study and debate and pat each other smugly on the backs about over their kosher cake and coffee. Even secular Jews, when exposed to true Torah study, tend to be deeply affected, even if they are not observant of the laws. Have pleasure, and then die, because what it the difference anyway? But the burden of proof is on you to prove that something does exist.
There is not one good thing about. These evolutionary processes are the key features of cosmology, astronomy, physics, geology, climatology, and biology. Marital life in Judaism. Why is it necessary to force these rules on a large group of people, two million if the figure tinder bay area free dating sites for hiv positive singles correct, when they could easily adopt them if they desire but reject the items that they find to archaic, perverted or harmful in some way? The laws of family purity apply to all spectrums of orthodoxy, including the modern ones that allow women to wear trousers and uncover their hair, like the sect Ivanka Trump belongs to, for sex dating sites south africa how to flirt through body language. These are perhaps best represented by this: Wait required after bowel movement? For example professions such as doctors have codes of conduct, which most follow voluntarily, but which include sanctions against rogue individuals. The former view require a LOT more study! You must be aware of the fact that the regular readers and contributors to this website are well aware that those people who are still under the effects of their childhood indoctrination into whatever religion it happens to be, believe that the ideas of the ancient desert semitic tribes are of paramount importance in living correctly in this current time. I have no reason to attack you, though you tried rile me by deliberately misspelling my name in an attempt to divert attention from my question. I mean, if there was a God of everything then everything would know, instinctively, who this God .
When I do bad, I feel bad. There are also quite a few secular Jews who participate in discussions on this site, although they usually base their comments on their associations with Jewish family members and evidence, rather than just making wild assumptions about the knowledge of others in discussions. But their is nothing sexual about the encounter! Children, however, were not regarded as old enough to make an informed decision, and so could not consent to marriage themselves, [8] although marriage to a female child was still permissible if her father consented, whether she agreed to it or not; [8] if the father was dead, such consent could be given by her mother, or her brothers, but in this latter case, the girl could annul the marriage when she reached the " standard " age of puberty 12 , if she wished. Now Ari, this is purely lack of imagination. When particular religions dominate the local legislatures national legislatures, police and the courts, actions of religious authorities are looked at through rosy spectacles, and we get the sorts of covered up abuses, such as Catholic priests raping children with impunity. But most of us have empathy to some degree, and that is just the way it is. Democracy is a state of grace, easily lost; laws concerning justice are a delicate thing too, based often on consensus. Online dating profile templates for males racepriority soohongp. And, single handedly summarized my absolute disdain for so many religions. The first examination of the seven days requires the cloth to be left in for about an hour, even if the woman is out of the house, and it is usually quite painful. But privileged to have them?? The extent of the ambiguity varies. My friends and I talk about our yoatzot and no one ever told me hers was telling her that the go-to-a-rabbi being a touchy subject for a bride to be, I would have heard of a yoetzet being that mean with one of my friends. Now, again, what advise will you offer this woman , who is of your own faith, based on what you know your religion requires of you in these circumstances. Unfortunately, we are not on an even playing field. Alan4discussion — If you really want to learn about these subjects, you need to engage and follow up on the answers and links you have been given, rather than constantly throwing in new topics to change the subject! We understand that and are saddened by it. Some things are more probable or less probable than other things. Please think first before making accusations about people that have different ways of thinking than you do.
When they do this they usually include a link to the evidence for their assertion. I really find that with Judaism, it creates an amazing blueprint for family connectivity. None of us is capable of changing your mind because it is closed to your dogma. Sexual relations with is plenty of fish a hook up site good pick up lines for facebook widow are also forbidden Lev. But most of us have empathy to some degree, and that is just the way it is. The article criticizes family purity on several grounds, and i will address these: 1. The ambulance came. A non-Jewish college professor boy, was that a long time ago! Should you hold back until they make the plunge first? But what is even more staggering is that these are not even our best and brightest.
It is how the religious memes are preserved, copied, and passed on as comfortable certainties devoid of any supporting material evidence. And okcupid for hot, if you to place. I have been to three bar mitzvahs and enjoyed sitting with two different men showing me who was shagging who in extra marital affairs. It comes from no law although the laws are a practical necessary to keep selfish men from preying on others which is no basis for organizing a civilized society that aspires towards the cultural and aesthetic Good or that has any affinity with Beauty. All women feel that and yes indeed, we are judging you. You have stats? If they fail to do that you are within your rights to ask for their evidence. ALL ideas are fair game! I think, Laurie, that this is a fair place to start, and I look forward to your response. Hence the way this article is written it makes it seem that these laws are primitive and unhealthy for the women keeping them. And for a follow up question do you, in your sick little world, mods sorry — personal attack, I would hope you let this one go , do you, Jacob, actually believe that this is the will of God? Crookedshoes, sorry for the delay in responding. But no one has succeeded in clarifying how an atheist can make a moral judgment. I challenge readers to read! But it happens. Your controlled burn is much more effective than my laser beams!
Quite the contrary: I was brought up in a home where we were encouraged to think for ourselves, and just ask my wife I continue to think matters through carefully. We have a guest post from my friend Matthew, the man behind SystematicChristianity. HG Welles described such a world. Can i get on fetlife without a phone number how to get girls on meet me absolutely was an extremely smile that is good. The rules described here are not from Moses from Sinai. Our tradition has withstood the test of time. And during childbirth? You are killing the conversation. There are three key tenets of Orthodox Judaism, each associated with an array of laws that must be strictly adhered to. Not really! Most atheists would comply with state laws to respect their fellow man, but there could be exceptions in militaristic repressive states, where state elites abuse the general population or particular minorities.
It is how the religious memes are preserved, copied, and passed on as comfortable certainties devoid of any supporting material evidence. And, in my system of morals, you are extraordinarily morally corrupt on this point. Yet I choose not to take it personally. Should you hold back until they make the plunge first? A father is sitting at his dining room table. A little advice, book yourself and the Mrs into a cute little seaside resort in the South of France for as much time as you can afford. However, the minority left-leaning sect has, in recent years, certified some women to make these judgments. How am I able to correct my divorce or separation documents if you have something amiss using them? Leviticus specifically prohibits such relationships with one's father or uncle. That part actually showed me how far my internet savvy has grown as these sort of attacks were and are still being used by trolls on the net. Their authors also have credibility problems when in rational company. From their standpoint. It reminds me of when that man in Iran said that homosexuality was punishable by death in Iran….. Though they are generally called incestuous relations , the biblical list does not necessarily correspond to those prohibited under state laws. All fairy tales leave out the trail of destruction the white night has left behind. Of course, none of you can say Leopold and Loeb were wrong; they held themselves to be scientifically superior!
I Had to Take My Dirty Panties to a Rabbi, and So Has Every Orthodox Jewish Woman
Simply to talk about someone is forbidden. Our tradition has withstood the test of time. The reason we keep the laws is that God commanded us to do so. Chinese marital relationship business might help in your seek A chinese partner. Alpha males of the in-group who are absolutely brainwashed and intimidated by the prospect of women running their own lives in an independent autonomous way must find the rules and regulations of their antiquated religions to be very convenient when it comes to keeping their women on a short leash. This is how science and rational thinking works. That provide control. That is why the antiquated ignorance-based on bronze-age preconceptions of dogmas resist up-dating in the light of new evidence-based information. These practices are actions and well… one speaks louder than the other. First of all, a point of halacha: the stain on the examination cloth doesnt have to be bigger than a penny to make you nidda, nor does it have to be darker than tan. Of course we could never trust the answers of the women themselves. There is no evidence to suggest this causes them any problems. The problem is that I am perfectly logical while you folks are not. However, the rabbis allowed deaf-mutes to marry each other.
You have no experiential evidence free dating sites south florida where to meet women in 2020 other than a bar which to rely. I await your response. Archived from the original on 10 October Desire to join unicorn dating sites for getting a unicorn to possess a long-lasting threesome relationship? When we factor in the thousands of gods that humans have invented over the millenia and no proof for any of them, when we factor in the laws of physics which make omniscience and omnipotence impossible. There is no basis in the bible or debatably afterwards to taboo sex — yet today in the ultra-orthodox communities, it is tabooed and considered impure. This was never called into question. Thanks online free dating sites usa 100% free online cougar dating sites your input, and indeed these are good and serious questions. Today they still are! I admire your courage. I will what to say to puerto rican cougars to get laid why cant i chat on adult friend finder on two issues: the morality of murder and the issue of homosexuality. Forcing couples to only have sex on schedule, according to an arbitrary ancient, man-made schedule leads to postponement of marital ennui for decades. The fact that you seem like a very nice and genteel human being only serves to highlight further how pernicious this collection of taboos and superstitions actually are. Like kosher and the Sabbath, the specific laws governing the execution of the commandment are recorded various rabbinical writings considered as binding as the Bible. Duck hunter pick up lines can messianic jew dating catholic girls Jews strive for modesty, but this does not mean that Jewish laws shies away from discussing pleasure. The origins and evolution of this god from the polytheistic Canaanite pantheon, are being progressively researched by archaeologists and anthropologists. A change of mind-set is going to take more than a few days. Another says that if you say the right prayers, their leukemia will clear up, another extolls the i changed my mindset and my life changed attract women is zoosk the best dating site of a vegan diet for newborns, hey, voodoo, santaria, animal sacrifice…. And as I have never been religions and come from a family of non-religious people and have had very little contact with orthodox Jews and know very little about Judaism, I can only assume…. The explanation given is as follows: Who says your blood is redder than his? Gratuitous allegations of anti-Semitism, are just a mentally lazy way of dodging answering valid criticisms — usually criticisms of:- damaging or repressive religious beliefs, the government of Israel, or Zionist literalist claims to be entitled to steal land from the previous owners whose families have lived on it for decades or centuries!
No, I am not saying you are Nazis! What if pick up lines in vietnamese online dating sites 18+ self regulating group practices cannibalism, female genital mutilation, paedophilia? Not really! Niddah family purity laws based on ancient superstitions force couples to reject sexual contact. So the secret of fascism is that it has this appeal to people whose later lives are not satisfactory. It seems that Aryeh has decided for herself that no logical woman would accept these laws. Seeing a spot obviously induces massive anxiety for housewives longing for any affection from their husbands, many of whom also worry that their deprived husbands will start looking. Just a little evo-bio-psych joke. Theistic evolution has no explained mechanism and the mechanisms of evolution have NOTHING to do with being guided towards particular objectives. Gratuitous allegations of anti-Semitism, are just a mentally lazy way of dodging answering valid criticisms — usually criticisms of:- damaging or repressive religious beliefs, the government of Israel, or Zionist literalist claims to be entitled to steal land from the previous owners whose families have lived on it for decades or centuries!
Until recently, little was known of these traditions outside of the Hebrew Bible, which denigrated them as idolatrous and licentious. Corpse uncleanness Handwashing Mikveh Niddah Ritual washing. How dare this religion do such repugnant shit? Folks, I came to the realization that it is not always helpful when one presents drastic examples, such as murder, to assess morality. It depends on the woman; responses vary. This is how we view the probability of the existence of a god or collection of gods or any other supernatural creature. Canaanite religious beliefs were polytheistic, with families typically focusing worship on ancestral household gods and goddesses, while honoring major deities such as El, Ashera, Baal, Anat, and Astarte at various public temples and high places. I find so much courage and honest intelligence in what you say. The taboos come in many forms. Canaanite religion describes the belief systems and ritual practices of the people living in the ancient Levant region throughout the Bronze Age and Iron Age. Especially converts. If you knew anything about religion or philosophy, you would know there are many more than two sides or two viewpoints! Kings also played an important religious role, especially in certain ceremonies, such as the sacred marriage of the New Year Festival, and may have been revered as gods. I have no such issue, I am much more open-minded.
This much is clear. A religion is not a race — and religious conflicts may or may not be between groups of the same of different races! For example, a genetic male may have developed the tinder new matches notification jdate for seniors of a normal female. Eyes have evolved many times n the evolution of life selective pressures in evolution promote replication of mechanisms which work or work better than the competition, bin ocular vision give a greater depth of perception of distance or a wider field swingers meeting places what percentage of single people use online dating apps vision — depending on the placing of the eyes on the skull. This is how it infests and infects the minds of the brainwashed, the morally bankrupt, the purveyors of smiling hatred for anyone not quite like themselves. The Insider Secrets for Hello World Starbucks CEO No tolerance for marriage fans that are conventional Man that is caring sits with wounded pet dating affairs australia online dating profile improvement the water that is pouring A sea religion and situation of Par Lagerkvist within the function. It makes me happy and I have a right to it. And the Nazis did the. Abingdon, Oxfordshire : Routledge. Conservative Judaism 's Committee on Jewish Law and Standards has validated different approaches to homosexuality and bisexuality, with one opinion being like the Orthodox position in many respects, and another opinion permitting many forms of homosexual sex and relationships, while continuing to regard anal intercourse between men as prohibited. But my brother, along with all the posters on this site, has been unable to logically explain why this moral code would have any standing or any validity. Your sex lives are private and your religion does not intrude or dominate!! Wow, talk about arrogance! They have absolutely nothing to do with sacred beliefs or your preoccupation with sacred beliefs! The English word scientist is relatively recent—first coined by William Whewell in the 19th century.
That is correct. This cannot possibly be processed by us and it makes no sense whatsoever. You claim a monopoly on morality, show no understanding whatever of rationally-based secular codes of conduct or those of other religions, and then accuse others of arrogance? Believe me, I have looked at panties and cloths, and it is not at all arousing! According to the United Nations, the condition affects up to 1. You need to Date Girls in Mexico City? Further, I find it horrifying that I almost brainwashed my two daughters to think this was normal and good for them. You flatter yourself to think that your women are happy when they and their children are under oppressive control. It has nothing, however, to do with homosexual conduct! The Talmudic Sages were well aware of the powerful sexual urge, and Jewish law seeks to direct that urge, not to discourage it! Others perhaps not specifically you have been much more ad hom; a sign, I believe, that they have no argument.
What about euthanasia in supposedly civililzed, advanced, secular societies? Oh, and i have enough trouble with English…. Qualifying for a loan with Good Loans Fast is easy! I have been to three bar mitzvahs and enjoyed sitting with two different men showing me who was shagging who in extra marital affairs. If during the seven days any of the examination cloths contain even a tiny spot darker than tan, or a spot on her underwear bigger than a penny and darker than tan, she must take the underwear or cloth to a special rabbi for further evaluation. They must comply because they have no choice. Why would it not be okay to kill people in a given secular community? God to me and to many compassionate and humane agnostics and atheists is simply Nothing. That is truly sad. Jonathan Miller admitted, we do owe religion, the Christian religion in particular, a certain debt of gratitude; it helped to move the evolution of our moral idea of brotherly love along. Pure family. LaurieB, Duly noted!!!